This is mostly a duplicate of my summarised responses to that exchange's original announcement threads here and in /nanotrade submitted by
**.** The owners of that new exchange are welcome to downvote this new posting of mine, but everyone else can make their own decision about whether to upvote this for posterity's benefit, so that my post gets found in months to come (given that Reddit's search engine is really bad at searching comments.)
Here's what's dodgy about this exchange, and why anyone who remembers BitGrail should be very afraid:
I emphasise that I'm not saying this is a scam
. But I am saying it looks like what a scam website would look like and appears to be operating illegally under UK law:
* The domain NanoTrade.co.uk
was registered only two days (one working day) before the site went live - meaning it only could have been tested very briefly, (Edit: and could not have been secured against accidentally being taken by another person, which implies incredible lack of planning)
* The domain was registered by NameCheap, with an obscured registrant
* The site was not pre-announced on /Nano
Currency nor /NanoTrade
* The site was announced
first on /nanotrade
(6k subscribers), but only announced here on /nanocurrency
(44k subscribers) three days later, demonstrating a lack of knowledge of Nano relative subscribers
* The announcer Paradise2GE
claimed Google and Facebook Ads existed prelaunch - but no one of you here saw them because you would have excitedly told us if you had
* No such advertising for the site was noted by me, yet I would have been a key target for it
* Since the domain was not registered, such advertising could not have included, say, a [[email protected]
) mail form, which is incompetent in itself
* Nano Associates Limited was registered with Companies House on 2018-02-28 (as company number 11229688
) - to a London mail-forwarding company's central London address (a postcode with 11,000 companies registered at the same address)
* Its sole Director 'Orlando Carugo' has no Google history of being associated with Nano, Cryptocurrency, or finance at all
* Orlando Carugo's profession is listed as 'Sales Director'
* The Google
and LinkedIn history of an UK-based 'Orlando Carugo' (a sales professional) can
be found, with no reference to cryptocurrency but with references to being willing to work for stock options or commission
* The announcement on /NanoTrade
was made by Paradise2GE
- an account with a few questions on Bitcoin two years ago, a single comment one year ago, then absolutely nothing until this weekend.
* We know nothing of the overall reputation of the company owners
* The company uses a payment processor https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/VirWoX
which has a daily limit on PayPal withdrawals of 2500EUR. The NanoTrade website however states that up to 90,000 Nano can be sold per PayPal transaction. It seems impossible to reconcile this for me. If 90,000 Nano is sold to PayPal, when would the seller get their money?
* If the answer is that such payments cannot be made, when were the company planning to tell the sellers?
* On being asked on /Nanotrade
has avoided answering this question in their dissembling answers
* The company is not registered by the FCA
* The company is not registered by HMRC as a money service
* It is a legal requirement for UK based companies to register as money services.
* It is not a get-out to just deal in USD and not GDP, yet Patadise2GE
has attempted to use that get-out in their answers
has dissembled when answering questions as to why Nano Associates is not registered with FCA or HMRC
claimed 1000 trades on their first day... for an unannounced site...purely from a posting that had around 40 up votes at the time. It's a lie. Not even Nanex gets that many trades on a good day.
* Given a supposed 1000 trades in a day, 1440 minutes in a day, and 25% of Nano staked on Binance, we should expect to see >5Nano transactions coming out of the Binance hot wallet at least every 10 minutes or so. I don't see those
* The site works poorly on Android, showing a lack of technical skill in its developers
* The announcement of the exchange on /nanocurrency
was by SMcArthurs
- a one year old account, with very few postings, and no history in the /nanocurrency
* Someone downvoted my reasonable questions on /nanotrade
. I can think of only one person who would want to do that, if malicious
* Someone downvoted someone thanking me for my questions on /nanotrade
. I can think of only one person who would want to do that, if malicious
* User astricali
at 2018-12-03 05:00GMT that they made a successful sale of 999.99 Nano. I performed a text extraction of the posted image address, which they were apparently instructed to send to
, but I notice that although that address indeed Received a 999.99 amount from the Binance Representative at 2018-12-04 02:17:01 (Timezone unknown), the address has never actually Pocketed
999.99 Nano - the payment is still Pending.This is odd, since once might expect an efficient provider to pocket the Nano they receive asap, to sell it on the markets
* The address
has however received a range of 8 payments ranging from 1.99 Nano to 1,847.99 Nano. That surprises me, because I would expect a payment provider to use a unique address for each received payment.
* The address
has only ever sent a payment once, to KuCoin, on an unknown date before 2018-07-25
have been extremely quiet in response to these complaints levelled against their site
* Edit: Why would they be selling Nano at 1.00 USD at the moment when Nano is on Binance at 0.94?
* Edit: Seeing 403 Forbidden error 2018-12-05 23:38GMT
* Edit: Don't even get me started on the Money Laundering, Terrorist Financing and Transfer of Funds (Information on the Payer) Regulations Regulations 2017
* Edit: It's 12 days later - 18-Dec-2018. The 999 Nano still hasn't been pocketed at address
. In 12 days neither promoter has denied that's it's their account. They are therefore probably incompetent even if non-malicious.
* Also noticed something I should have picked up before: That address is Represented by Nanowallet.io - which means it's probably
an account created on Nanowallet.io. Any 'real' exchange would need, at the very minimum, to run it's own node so that it can be online 24/7 - and if so would most likely Represent itself. Specifically choosing Nanowallet.io as their Representative after installing a full node would be an odd decision, given that they could help decentralize.
'm at way over 22 red flags here. I hope I save someone.
I'm gonna post this in every /news
thread because it seems people here don't understand the most basic facts about "cryptocurrencies".
Cryptocurrencies are not always meant to function like traditional currencies. They're called currencies because they're tradeable.
A cryptocurrency (or crypto currency) is a digital asset designed to work as a medium of exchange that uses cryptography to secure its transactions, to control the creation of additional units, and to verify the transfer of assets
All that means is they're digital assets that can be traded from one party to another without the need of a middleman. It doesn't mean they are a currency meant to buy lattes and pay your friends. Some of the most interesting cryptos are ones that people will not even realize they are using.
There are many classes of coins/tokens. Which can do a lot of different things. An absurd amount of things.
Edit: Anyone who's researched the most basic facts of crypto knows that bitcoin is not private. You all are reading news from the early 2010's at this point.
- Traditional Coins: Bitcoin, Litecoin
- DAG Coins: IOTA, Raiblocks
- Supply Chain Coins: VeChain, Waltonchain, Modum
- Privacy Coins: Monero, Dash, ZCash
- Smart Contract Platforms: Ethereum, Lisk, Neo, NEM, QTUM
- Prospective Projects: EOS, Cardano
- Scams: Bitconnect
- Payment Solutions: Ripple, Stellar, Request Network, OmiseGo
- Ecosystem Payments: Chainlink, Quantstamp, BAT,
- Exchange Coins: Binance Coin, Kucoin Shares, Kyber Network, 0x
- Supercomputing: Golem, iExec
There are dozens more categories. Including things like [Credit]1
, and [Shit that's so complicated I can't even explain it]3
The key is that they are easily tradable from you to me. I can send anyone on this board crypto right now. As long I know where to send it. That crypto goes way beyond cash and currency. Some of them could represent anything. From dividend payments to debt.
Say Apple decided to come out with a coin called APPLE. That APPLE coin would distribute you profits based on how much you hold (Like a dividend). Then you could trade APPLE for GE. Without a broker.
What if you could buy a house without a title company? Or send money to your family in a foreign country with no fees?
There are millions of problems that crypto can help solve. Some of them don't require a token and just need a blockchain. Some of them CAN use a token, and that coin/token can have tremendous value.
That's what cryptocurrencies are. They're not stocks, real estate, bonds, or commodities. They're a whole new thing. They have different parameters. They act different. They have different markets.
The reason Bitcoin(BTC) and Ethereum (ETH) are so dominant is because they are the de facto trading commodity in the crypto space. Everything is CoinX/BTC or Coinx/ETH. You need these coins to get in the game. [Bitcoin is dying.]4
It's having trouble scaling and facing internal (the bcash war) and external (governments, whales) pressure. It's continued to lose market share to ETH and several new up and comers that can do even more.
Crypto is rapidly changing. People are moving away from power intensive Proof of Work protocols to Proof of Stake variations. We now have DAGs entering the fray, which have hypothetical feeless and instant transactions that could potentially power a whole new ecosystem of payments and devices.
The world of crypto is exciting and interesting. It's volitile and dangerous. But it's not a ponzi scheme. It's not a scam. There is real money being made. Real companies are embracing it. Real interesting ideas are being constructed and executed.
You have basically two choices. You can get interested and learn, or you can pretend it's not real and ignore it. The latter group has been proven repeatedly wrong. Those mistakes could possibly be fatal for certain businesses. As for the "bubble" talk. Crypto bubbles pop all the time. Bitconnect (an infamous scam) was annihilated this week. Bitcoin itself is bleeding badly and continues to lose market share. Coins like Vertcoin rocket up to the top 20 only to fall below into the 100s based on overhype and "flavor of the month" style thinking. It's complex international market that never sleeps, always surprises and is difficult to predict.
One thing is for sure. Regardless of whether you believe in crypto or not. The people calling it "all a ponzi", "tulip mania", or "drug currency". Those people are fucking morons who have done no research
. They're also incredibly abundant here. Crypto may be speculative, but you bet your ass people are going to speculate with twelve figure companies like Microsoft, IBM, Bosch are creating entire legions of personnel and resources dedicated to developing them. Each coin has a unique user base, application and potential. Some of them have serious challenges. Some of them have serious flaws. The activity in China, Korea and Japan is extraordinary. Some cities are positioning themselves to be "crypto capitals". There is even speculation that countries like China will "anoint" blockchains to be standardized and used throughout their economy. Cornering the market and dumping spectacular amounts of cash into certain coins.
The rabbit hole goes even deeper when you get into ICOs, deep chart tokens, whale manipulation, governmental relations (Chinacoin), investor theory (going beyond coin fundamentals to coin perception and marketing), taxes, complex ecosystems (ERC20 tokens), cold storage, exchange politics, and dozens of other hot topics.
I hope that clears some things up. I also suggest reading and visiting the communities behind some of the coins I've listed.
Edit: added some details and fixed some spelling. Please feel free to repost this, or correct me.
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Real Example, NOT AN ADVISOR! Take from my experience what you want. I simply feel compelled to share a real life experience. I have opinions and will express those but they are still "just my opinion." My eyes have been opened to a new world in a very short period of time. I am still learning so much and definitely do not have an ultimate understanding of Bitcoin and all things related. I plan on documenting my experience for the benefit of those who care to observe so watch for continuous posts.
I am just a regular guy who decided to take a chance and buy some Bitcoin. I bought in with $7000 at the beginning of December 2017 (two weeks ago at time of this post). I had just recently freed up some available cash and decided to use some (not all) to invest in Bitcoin. I purchased using my bank account through Coinbase via two separate transactions and the process was very simple. I will warn you though there is a significant waiting period when depositing from a bank account. It took several days for the transaction to become available to use but I was locked in at the Bitcoin price at the time of purchase which was just under $11K. So I actually earned a nice profit while waiting for the transaction to complete as the price was rising so rapidly.
I opened up another wallet on Binance which is where I transferred the full balance of my investment which at the time was around 0.6 Bitcoin.
My reason for moving money to Binance is because I wanted to also be able to invest in other cryptocurrencies and Binance is an exchange that lists almost 100 different coins. I had no idea prior to this that so many new coins even existed but found that new coins are created very frequently (I plan to discuss this and other topics in more detail in later posts).
I proceeded to use the balance of my Bitcoin to trade on other currencies (just like a stock market). I did research on some of the tokens and some I just trade based on volume and action (like a day trader would do).
I started off with my toe in the water but soon realized that there are tons of new investors doing the same thing that I am which means there is lots of new money pouring into Bitcoin and the other currencies. I rode a few really big surges as carefully as I could. I monitored the coins I invested in very closely using multiple devices and apps to help with notifications and price alerts (so far BitUniverse is my favorite app for alerts).
Up to Tuesday (12/12/17) evening I had just been in learning mode. I had made a few conservative trades and had turned my $7,000 into $10,200. Most of that increase was from Bitcoin itself going up and up.
I started trading a little heavier on Wednesday and continued to make what I thought were smart trades through to Friday. Again Bitcoin accounts for most of my gains at this point but by Friday night I had approximately $15,000 which equated to about 0.84 BTC.
Friday night I invested heavily in a coin called XVG (Verge). I went to sleep with my notification app set to alert me if the price of XVG should suddenly drop. I slept great because I had been so exhausted from a week of meticulously watching prices of BTC and its companions. I awoke around 5am and quickly realized I had not gotten any notifications of a price drop of XVG. I grabbed my phone to check the price and found that I had gained 25% overnight. I watched the price and ended up exiting the position around 6am bringing all funds back to Bitcoin. Now I had over .75 Bitcoin.
Saturday 12/16 was an eye opening day for me. After my big overnight gain with XVG things continued to get better. Bitcoin rose from $18,100 to $19,700. I made several trades throughout the day and was flabbergasted by what I witnessed. It was obvious that lots of new money was flowing into the hundreds of alt coins available for trade. I would estimate that 80% of the coins were significantly up while Bitcoin itself continued to go up. That could only happen if more money is flowing into the system. I made what I consider some very big trades throughout the day, mostly capitalizing on huge surges in XVG and TRX. On Saturday alone I was able to turn .75 BTC into 1.12 BTC all while Bitcoin was holding steady or going up in value.
You can do the math on what 1.12 Bitcoins is worth. I plan to continue trading until I have 2.0 Bitcoins at which time I will cash out my original $7,000 investment. That is my plan anyway, there is always the chance that the "Bubble" could burst or I make some really stupid trading decisions and end up losing all of my investment. If so, at least I took a shot.
I hope this post gets some attention. I do not see many real experience posts online or anywhere else, maybe I am just not looking hard enough.
Just my opinion, but I think Bitcoin and many other cryptocurrencies at least have potential to be something big. I am personally willing to wager some (not all, not my life savings) of what I have on that potential.
Hit me up with questions, I hope to continue posting updates on my experience. I promise to even post if/when this whole thing crashes and I look like the laughing stock.
Meanwhile, be smart with your money. Do not risk what you cannot afford to lose...Ever!
Sorry! I do also want to give a huge shout out and THANK YOU to my brother-in-law who introduced me to Binance and shares his insight on Bitcoin.
And Sorry/Not Sorry...Binance does have a referral program if anyone is interested I am forever grateful if you would use the following link to sign up. [Binance]1
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